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VVWC :: View topic - Dual circuit master cylinder?
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Dual circuit master cylinder?
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Bow-Wow
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Joined: May 04, 2006
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Location: Langford

PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TroyT wrote:
It has to be a line somewhere down the line.


I see what you did there. Wink
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ketchuphead
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Joined: Apr 27, 2006
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Location: 290 malahat drive

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

are you bleeding the brakes with a bottle of fluid and hose ? sure sounds like air in the system ,,,
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TroyT
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to agree, looks like air is getting in somewhere. Yes, bleeding into a glass jar with clear hose. Also have a small one way check valve installed. I have re-done a couple of questionable steel lines as well. Just waiting for my helper to get off the phone.
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ketchuphead
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

put brake fluid in the jar ,make sure hose is into the fluid , no need for a check valve ,i,v done a few brake jobs and had some success,,
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TroyT
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice, yes always have jar half full of fluid. As for the check valve, just happened to have it and it helps hold the tubing in place. Have done lots of brakes, but this particular time it seems to want to fight me. Nice weather is here and just want to get out and drive.
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haywirebutton
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

get the 10 dollar suction bottle...works great right at the bleeder
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TroyT
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, so I'm in the same situation. Here's a shot in the dark. Steel brake lines with "bubble" flares. VW uses this type of brake line. I purchased some lines from CIP and made up some of my own. I have a bubble flare kit. Ok, however, I noticed on the CIP lines have a little extra "bit" on the end. The lines I made up do not. Does this possibly have any impact on sealing? Any insight in regards to this, greatly appreciated.
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mitchy965
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if its leaking you will see fluid coming out and fluid is heavier than air,gravity works here. when you blocked off the master how far did the pedal go down before becoming hard?? only a few things are gonna give you a low/ soft pedal-faulty master,air in the system,expanding flex hoses or maladjusted shoes. take the time to adjust all the shoes out to the max so the wheel will barely turn, both adjusters on each wheel. this will take away all the free play between the shoe and cylinder so the hydraulic action should firm up.if no joy- clamp (gently, so you dont damage) the hoses ,i have specific tools for this (rounded nose clamps) but with care vise grips work. clamp the RR first than add another clamp to the LR and so on, check the pedal after adding each clamp to see if it makes for a better pedal. if you unluckily have a incorrect combo of parts its possible that the master has to pump out 8 wheel cylinder pistons out to meet the drums and thats beyond its capacity. by adjusting the shoes out tight you remove all that space reducing the needed amount of fluid to do this. hope this makes sense to you,cant always explain things easy.....
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TroyT
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you so much for the advice. I have tried clamping the hoses before to no avail. I saw some moisture at the front right steel line where it meets the flexible hose. I re-placed that steel line. Still no joy. At that point took a few days off. I again tried clamping the front right hose, bang! Pedal nice and hard. I assumed then brake cylinder. I just pulled the front right drum off and there is brake fluid, just a light layer at the bottom. The drum has a sticky mass on it, where it sat and the pad is stained. What gets me is the brake cylinder shows no sign of leaking?? I now assume I have a faulty brake cylinder.
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haywirebutton
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

your lining will be shot and just glaze over....carbon tetrachloride is about the only thing that will remove brake fluid...if they were asbestos linings you could burn it off...it'll just hard glaze the saturated lining and trash the drum
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TroyT
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is getting stupid now. I replaced the brake drum cylinder, cleaned everything up, put it all back together. Adjusted the shoes, re-bled the system. Pedal went to the floor! Clamped the hose again in desperation, pedal went solid. What the hell? Could it be a faulty hose? I'm sorta at my wits now.
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mitchy965
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the clamp never lies!! pull the drum off,take off the clamp and have an assistant slowly press down on the pedal while wedging screwdrivers in to the backing plate to hold back the shoes,maybe you can now see whats happening in there.are the shoes lined up to the cylinders and adjustors?? is the wheel cylinder pushing on the shoes? most times when a line fails it gets bloated or bulged.i have had flex hoses actually work like a check valve allowing fluid to go one way,(not your issue, but seen it). if you floor the pedal do any of the wheels brake?does the pedal pump up after a few pumps or does it just go to the floor? frustrating i know but stick with it,your close.
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haywirebutton
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe your wheel cylinder is stuck in a different dimension or parallel universe???
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TroyT
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, I see you have a '91 964. Nice! I have a '66 912, wanna race?
Ok, here's the update: I've been pulling drums off, having a look. Everything looks fine. With no clamps on flexible hoses, pedal goes approx. 4".Does not hit the floor anymore. With clamp on front right, pedal goes approx. 1.5" to 2". However, when I clamp front left, does the same thing. I bought new flexible hoses today, they look superior to the "new" ones already installed. Any thoughts out there?
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haywirebutton
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adjustment...wind shoes TIGHT then back off till you can rotate the wheel...if they pump up with less travel then your adjustment is too loose
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